ADHD, Invisible Disabilities, and Making the Digital World Accessible [Video]

By Understood

Albert Kim first got interested in digital accessibility because of his ADHD, dyslexia, and invisible disabilities. He wanted to make websites and apps usable for everyone, including himself. After all, he uses a screen reader and text-to-speech to read text online.

However, when Albert started to explore a career in digital accessibility, some of his friends discouraged him. They said it wasn’t a good career path. Albert decided to try anyway. Within a few years, demand for his expertise exploded. People who had discouraged him before were now asking about jobs. In this episode, Albert shares how to start a career in digital accessibility, and why he wants others with learning differences to join the field. He also talks about the challenges of being a first-generation college student and immigrant from South Korea without money.

To find a transcript for this episode and more resources, visit the episode page at Understood. https://www.understood.org/podcast/ho…

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at thatjob@understood.org.

Understood is a nonprofit and social impact organization dedicated to shaping a world where the 1 in 5 people who learn and think differently can thrive. Learn more about “How’d You Get THAT Job?!” and all our podcasts at u.org/podcasts. Copyright © 2022 Understood for All, Inc. All rights reserved.

Transcript provided by YouTube (unedited)

0:00
so i started talking to different people
0:02
around me who were working in tech
0:04
industry
0:05
but then most people were
0:07
discouraging most people actually didn’t
0:10
even know about this field most people
0:12
didn’t really recommend it but growing
0:15
up in such a hardship raised by a single
0:17
mom and everything yeah it is
0:19
challenging i get it but i went through
0:21
a lot of challenges already
0:23
[Music]
0:26
from the understood podcast network this
0:28
is how how’d you get that job a podcast
0:30
that explores the unique and often
0:32
unexpected career paths of people with
0:35
learning and thinking differences
0:37
my name is eleni matheau and i’m a user
0:39
researcher here at understood that means
0:41
i spend a lot of time thinking about how
0:43
we find jobs we love that reflect how we
0:45
learn and who we are
0:47
i’ll be your host
0:48
[Music]
0:52
if you have a learning or thinking
0:54
difference or a disability you might
0:56
have heard of the word accessibility
0:58
this means making things as usable as
1:00
possible by as many people as possible
1:02
well our next guest albert kim is an
1:04
accessibility expert he also has adhd
1:07
dyslexia and other invisible
1:09
disabilities which is part of the reason
1:11
he feels like he found his calling hi
1:13
albert welcome to the show yeah thank
1:15
you for having me so i thought a nice
1:17
place to start would be just like kind
1:19
of explaining what it means to be an
1:21
accessibility expert i’m on the product
1:23
team at understood and so i work really
1:26
closely with the experience and design
1:28
team and i’ve actually worked on a few
1:31
accessibility projects so i’m pretty
1:33
familiar but for our listeners i thought
1:36
it might be valuable for you to explain
1:39
what it might mean to be an
1:40
accessibility expert and just describe
1:43
it to them as simple as possible
1:46
basically the work that i’m doing
1:48
accessibility specialist role it
1:50
actually focuses on digital
1:52
accessibility so just like buildings
1:55
there’s a law to make it accessible for
1:58
people with disabilities or anyone to be
2:01
able to access for wheelchair users and
2:04
things like that digital space same
2:06
thing for digital products whether that
2:08
is like an app or website it needs to be
2:11
accessible for everyone
2:14
so
2:14
i basically help companies make these
2:17
digital products accessible to everyone
2:20
and it’s not just people with
2:22
disabilities because disability has
2:24
three different categories like
2:26
permanent temporary situational for
2:29
example my mother as she gets older her
2:32
vision is lower and
2:34
so her text size has to be bigger and
2:37
things like that so it’s a really
2:39
interdisciplinary subject it involves
2:41
human computer interaction
2:43
design
2:45
computer science and psychology yeah so
2:48
yeah it’s a very fascinating
2:50
subject area
2:52
i think one thing that we talk about ux
2:53
is really i’m trying to understand the
2:56
state of the person using the technology
2:59
whether that’s like an emotional state
3:01
or a physical state and designing with
3:03
that in mind yeah of course
3:06
i would love to hear why accessibility
3:09
is so important to you and why you chose
3:12
to dedicate your career to accessibility
3:15
for me
3:16
accessibility is really important
3:19
because i deeply empathize with the
3:22
struggles i myself have disabilities i
3:25
was born with some disabilities and also
3:28
attained some growing up and
3:30
so
3:31
for me the representation and advocacy
3:35
for people with disabilities is really
3:37
important
3:38
growing up i was born in a south korean
3:41
family and south korea has a lot of
3:44
stigma towards disability especially
3:47
invisible disabilities like mental
3:50
health and things like that and and my
3:52
parents have never gone to any school
3:54
but they never got any formal education
3:57
so for me growing up i’ve never really
4:00
seeked out for any medical help or any
4:03
diagnosis for my disabilities and
4:05
even when i became adult and try to seek
4:08
for medical help by myself my parents
4:10
were against it because they just simply
4:12
didn’t want their child
4:15
having a diagnosis of a certain
4:18
disability and things like that so
4:20
having gone through such a struggle
4:23
even within my family in my environment
4:26
in my society wanting to be
4:29
accepted as who i am i
4:31
deeply empathize with such struggle for
4:35
anyone honestly not just people with
4:37
disabilities
4:38
when i came across this subject this
4:40
filled for me it was like a calling it
4:43
was like a live mission and especially
4:46
even within digital accessibility these
4:48
invisible disabilities like cognitive
4:50
and learning disabilities as well as
4:52
mental health have not been
4:54
traditionally covered much which it was
4:58
very absurd to me because if not
5:01
accessibility area talks about these
5:04
issues then where else can we talk about
5:07
it right definitely so kind of felt like
5:10
a calling and i feel like i had to jump
5:12
in and really bring more representation
5:14
of people with disabilities similar
5:16
disabilities that i have in this field
5:18
yeah that’s definitely something that
5:20
i’ve heard in my research too when we
5:23
talk more broadly about diversity and
5:26
inclusion often disability is left out
5:28
and then even within the disability
5:30
spaces invisible disabilities are left
5:33
out of that conversation too so there’s
5:36
like a number of layers and as you said
5:38
learning disabilities in particular are
5:41
often you know not considered
5:43
i would love to hear some examples of
5:45
where you’ve noticed perhaps digital
5:49
platforms not being as accessible as
5:51
they could be for learning disabilities
5:54
and like a common mistake or gap that
5:57
you see on these platforms
6:00
i think one of the
6:02
challenges i have is the
6:04
reading comprehension difficulty due to
6:07
my dyslexia and because of that i use
6:10
screen readers a lot and a lot of
6:13
websites actually majority of websites
6:15
are inaccessible and one of the most
6:18
common thing is these screen readers are
6:21
assistive technology that requires
6:25
specific technical compatibility but
6:28
many websites are not designed and
6:30
developed with these assistive
6:32
technologies in mind so for example if
6:35
i’m trying to use screen reader to read
6:38
the contents sometimes it might skip
6:40
like there’s no for example alt text for
6:42
images or there’s no coherent orders and
6:46
it’s just really not the pleasant
6:49
experience so those are one of the
6:51
biggest challenges and also in terms of
6:53
from the mental health aspect a lot of
6:56
contents that might trigger mental
6:58
health traumas there’s no trigger
7:00
warning or the contents might be just
7:03
dangerous subjects right dangerous
7:06
things and
7:07
being able to write contents in plain
7:09
language rather than over complicating
7:12
things and a lot of it is design content
7:16
those are the biggest parts that i find
7:18
a lot of issues and i know you mentioned
7:21
that you didn’t necessarily see
7:23
some of your diagnoses considered so i
7:28
thought it might be helpful for the
7:29
audience if you feel comfortable to
7:31
share the learning differences that you
7:34
have yeah thank you for asking because i
7:37
know there’s a lot of stigma towards
7:39
disabilities and i know many times
7:42
people tend not to disclose and i was
7:45
advised not to disclose if i don’t feel
7:47
comfortable too but i try to
7:50
disclose as much information as possible
7:52
because i want to break that stigma a
7:54
lot and i have cognitive and learning
7:56
disabilities such as adhd dyslexia ocd i
8:01
also have anxiety and depression as well
8:04
as a ptsd so it’s quite a lot but these
8:08
are
8:09
the diagnosis that i got and been on
8:12
medication for them and i’m really
8:15
fortunate to be able to find a good
8:17
medical team who was able to help me out
8:20
in this journey yeah i’m happy to hear
8:23
that for you too and thank you for being
8:25
vulnerable and sharing all of those
8:27
diagnoses it is really important
8:29
sometimes
8:30
to be more open because that’s setting
8:32
an example for other people that might
8:34
feel a little bit more shame and it
8:36
really reduces stigma around you’re just
8:38
talking about it
8:40
so you mentioned
8:42
that when you discovered the
8:44
accessibility space you felt like it was
8:46
truly your calling i want to hear more
8:48
about how you discovered it you know set
8:51
you on that path
8:53
actually
8:54
to share that story i i do need to share
8:57
a little bit about my background because
8:59
i think it’s all connected
9:01
i was born in a family with domestic
9:04
violence so my mother my sister and i
9:08
all uh escaped from my father so i was
9:11
mostly raised by a single mom i’m a
9:14
first generation college student and we
9:16
couldn’t afford the cost so
9:19
i had to take a pause in my college and
9:22
at that point i was trying to find out
9:25
what can i do in terms of my career and
9:28
while i was going to college i actually
9:30
tried three different startups i thought
9:33
business success would be
9:35
my fastest route to become financially
9:39
independent and free so that i can
9:41
support my family so i tried different
9:44
startups and then i went to
9:46
south korean military because of the
9:48
compulsory military service and in the
9:50
military i served as a
9:51
telecommunications specialist and that
9:54
was like the first time i kind of
9:56
interacted with this more of a computer
9:59
and technical things
10:00
and then after i came out i was doing
10:02
more of a digital consultant work but
10:05
then because of my startup experience
10:07
previously i got recruited by my friend
10:11
when i was brought in as a business
10:12
development manager
10:14
and while i was working for this tech
10:16
startup i realized oh like in order for
10:19
me to really get into this field i do
10:22
really need to understand more about
10:23
computer science and coding and web
10:25
development so i started doing a ucla
10:29
extension certificate in web development
10:31
applications programming and while i was
10:34
studying that subject i came across
10:36
digital accessibility at first i was
10:40
very
10:41
fascinated by the subject because
10:45
i never ever imagined there is an
10:48
existing field for this specific digital
10:50
accessibility and
10:52
when i came across i felt like like this
10:54
is super cool to me it was kind of like
10:57
looking at robots or ai so i
11:00
automatically got drawn to it and i
11:02
started looking up oh so what are the
11:05
digital accessibility guidelines for
11:07
people with invisible disabilities or
11:09
people like me and i couldn’t really
11:12
find much resources oh that’s strange
11:15
maybe i did a poor research so i started
11:17
reaching out to different people
11:19
on linkedin and also attending different
11:21
events and conferences to see
11:24
maybe if i attend these professional
11:26
events i’ll be able to hear more about
11:28
that subject but i still couldn’t find
11:30
much information and then i realized oh
11:33
wow so most of the digital accessibility
11:36
conversations were focused on physical
11:39
disabilities blind death and motor
11:42
but invisible disabilities have not been
11:44
covered much so that’s when i felt like
11:47
oh it’s my calling and i need to really
11:49
get into this field and try to bring
11:51
more representation
11:52
yeah and that’s something that we also
11:55
hear a lot where people
11:57
identify like an opportunity or a gap
12:00
and
12:01
for people that are more risk averse
12:03
it’s like oh but like that’s uncharted
12:06
territory whereas for others it’s like
12:08
well that’s actually really exciting
12:10
you can be the pioneer in that space if
12:12
no one is doing it and as you said
12:14
there’s definitely a need for it like
12:16
you identified a personal need for it so
12:18
there must be others feeling the same
12:20
way right
12:21
at first i didn’t know how to start so i
12:24
started talking to different people
12:26
around me who were working in tech
12:27
industry
12:28
but then most people were
12:31
giving me advice that was discouraging
12:34
and most people actually didn’t even
12:36
know about this field existing and
12:38
second most people didn’t really
12:40
recommend it like it’s an unclear career
12:43
path and the companies that have
12:46
accessibility teams are only the large
12:48
companies so i heard a lot of
12:50
discouragement but
12:52
growing up in such a hardship raised by
12:54
single mom and everything yeah it is
12:57
challenging i get it but i went through
12:59
a lot of challenges already but i’ve
13:01
still overcame so
13:03
why not try and what an interesting life
13:07
because after i got into this field
13:10
shortly after
13:12
the demand has soared
13:15
extremely a lot
13:17
so
13:18
compared to two years ago there was an
13:21
article
13:22
talking about the job increase in this
13:24
field was 70 percent in one year and
13:27
because of the covet and how the digital
13:30
transformation is occurring and a lot of
13:32
government services and public services
13:34
are also transitioning to digital
13:37
there’s a soaring demand for making
13:40
websites and apps accessible for
13:43
everyone so that public services are
13:45
available for everyone so now
13:49
the people who were discouraging me
13:50
before are now coming to me
13:54
yeah congratulating me and also asking
13:56
for help they want to
13:58
learn more about it yeah and i think
14:00
that takes a lot of courage to block out
14:02
societal pressure and other people’s
14:04
opinions and just really look inward in
14:07
terms of what you want and being guided
14:09
by that and i think that neurodiverse
14:12
people are actually very strong at that
14:15
because we’ve overcome that kind of
14:17
stigma always resisting yeah we talk
14:20
about that a lot you know if you already
14:22
feel othered in whatever way then it’s
14:24
actually a lot easier to go against the
14:27
status quo and go against the grain
14:29
because you already are and i think it’s
14:31
really important to point out some of
14:34
the strengths and
14:35
positivity around neurodiversity yeah
14:39
thank you i really hope that more and
14:41
more neurodiverse people pursue this
14:44
field because there’s a huge demand for
14:47
neurodiversity representation in this
14:49
field and it’s a really really
14:51
fascinating subject that i think a lot
14:54
of people will find very meaningful
14:56
because you get all the benefits of
14:58
working in the tech industry like
14:59
flexible location and most companies are
15:04
nowadays remote and flexible hours but
15:07
at the same time you do work that
15:10
actually benefits people with
15:12
disabilities and
15:14
humanity
15:15
so it just gives me a lot of life
15:17
fulfillment and meaning in my work and
15:20
everything oh that’s so beautiful to
15:23
hear you know you mentioned flexibility
15:25
in the tech industry and how perhaps
15:28
working in tech could be a little bit
15:30
more inclusive or more accessible
15:33
do you want to talk a little bit more
15:34
about that and why that’s important to
15:37
you if i were to work at a traditional
15:41
company
15:43
where
15:44
the business
15:45
practice and work environment is very
15:47
traditional it’ll be very challenging
15:50
because because of my disability
15:52
sometimes i need to have flexible work
15:54
hours
15:55
also being able to work remotely at my
15:58
home where i feel comfortable
16:01
gives me a lot of room for accommodating
16:03
my disabilities and another thing is i
16:06
feel like the tech industry the culture
16:08
and the community itself is very
16:11
supportive it’s all about like
16:13
supporting each other open source
16:15
projects and we all trying to help each
16:18
other so that is a huge plus for people
16:20
like me who is a foreigner in a
16:24
foreign country without a college degree
16:27
and then being a first generation
16:29
college student within lack of guidance
16:31
it means so much to have that kind of
16:33
support especially digital accessibility
16:36
community because
16:37
a lot of people in digital accessibility
16:39
resonate and empathize with people with
16:42
disabilities and actually having
16:44
disability
16:45
is a huge huge strength because you have
16:49
a deep insight and understanding of
16:52
users with disabilities
16:55
and that is very precious and highly
16:58
appreciated skill and experience in this
17:00
field so i think that was one of the
17:02
biggest part was the people in this
17:05
field were just very welcoming loving
17:08
and supportive and that is really hard
17:10
to find in other fields i feel like
17:13
and you also mentioned not finishing
17:16
college
17:17
and some of the challenges that you had
17:19
from my financial perspective but i
17:21
would love to hear perhaps some other
17:23
challenges that might have been related
17:25
to like your learning and thinking
17:27
differences or your other mental health
17:29
challenges
17:30
a lot of challenges are so subtle and
17:34
embedded in my life that
17:36
i don’t even know it exists
17:39
for example i have a hard time with
17:42
estimating time so my doctor was telling
17:45
me because of my low executive
17:47
functioning in my brain if i’m
17:50
estimating a time for a certain work or
17:53
a certain task and i can pretty much
17:54
assume that it is gonna be wrong and
17:57
another thing is balancing my focus it’s
18:01
very hard to balance my focus for
18:03
example i have adhd and i get distracted
18:06
to a lot of environmental stimuli so
18:09
when i’m working i turn off a lot of
18:12
other
18:13
noises in my room and try to be able to
18:15
focus so that i don’t get distracted
18:18
but at the same time i have ocd as well
18:21
so
18:22
for me
18:23
there’s no middle ground and it’s like
18:26
either i’m very distracted or i’m very
18:29
very very focused
18:31
maybe too focused to the point that i’m
18:34
not prioritizing certain tasks and
18:38
moving forward it’s kind of like a
18:40
bicycle when you’re riding a bicycle on
18:42
a downhill it’s hard to stop for me it’s
18:46
very hard to stop when i’m going down
18:48
already into the path of adhd
18:51
so
18:52
learning
18:53
coping mechanism to
18:55
help me balance that has been very
18:57
challenging
18:59
also another thing is because of my
19:01
anxiety new environment where it’s my
19:04
first time experience
19:06
for example
19:07
let’s say that i’m trying to go to
19:10
medical school i’ve never been to
19:12
medical school before then there’s lots
19:15
of new information out there
19:18
that i don’t know
19:20
to me that is a huge uncertainty and
19:23
that overwhelms me a lot
19:25
so it gives me anxiety
19:27
and it triggers my ocd a lot so
19:31
i get obsessed about like reading things
19:34
and learning things because i’m so
19:36
anxious that i feel like if i miss a one
19:39
word i might miss a huge chunk of
19:42
information so it took me a long time to
19:44
really
19:45
learn the coping mechanism that it’s
19:47
okay to fail it’s okay to try
19:50
and whether or not you fail you will
19:53
learn something and it will be good for
19:55
you
19:56
so just it was constant struggle but
19:58
definitely i think his first step was
20:01
getting medical help and it helped me
20:04
tremendously that was super interesting
20:07
to hear how your different diagnoses
20:11
interact and how they show up for you
20:13
and how one can actually then trigger
20:16
the other and
20:18
since you started talking about advice i
20:20
thought that would be a really good
20:21
segue to ask you about other advice you
20:24
have for young people with thinking and
20:26
learning differences particularly those
20:28
that might be interested in getting into
20:30
the accessibility space the main thing
20:33
that i really want to
20:35
convey to people who are going through a
20:37
similar struggle as i am is that
20:40
you are not alone
20:42
i’m here
20:43
there are a ton of other friends around
20:45
me who have similar struggles we are
20:48
here
20:50
and you are heard you are accepted you
20:53
are loved so i think finding community
20:57
is really powerful i started this
21:00
community called accessibility next gen
21:02
because i wanted to build a supportive
21:04
community for anyone who want to learn
21:06
about digital accessibility to be able
21:08
to help each other and make more friends
21:11
literally like that was main reason why
21:13
because when i was trying to get into
21:14
this field is so challenging and there
21:17
are people a ton of people who are
21:21
more than happy to help you
21:23
i and tons of my friends want to help
21:27
people with disabilities and especially
21:30
neurodiversity to get into this field so
21:33
please let me let us help you
21:36
by
21:38
reaching out to us or connecting with us
21:40
or just shooting a dm anytime the name
21:44
of the
21:45
community is accessibility next gen and
21:48
it’s on meetup also you can find me on
21:51
linkedin albert kim or my twitter handle
21:54
is djk albert but the slack channel is
21:58
actually invitation only so
22:01
once you actually message me i can send
22:03
the invitation and then go from there
22:06
thank you so much for joining albert and
22:08
thank you for all of the work that you
22:09
do in the accessibility space well thank
22:13
you so much eleni for having me today
22:15
and i hope that my story will
22:19
at least help someone feel that they are
22:21
not alone so thank you i hope so too
22:27
[Music]
22:30
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want to make sure you’re getting what
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you need go to you.org that job to share
22:49
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every episode that’s the letter u as in
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understood dot o r g slash that job
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do you have a learning difference in a
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job you’re passionate about email us at
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that job understood.org if you’d like to
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tell us how you got that job we’d love
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shape the world for difference and we
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welcome you to join us in achieving our
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goals learn more at understood.org
23:25
mission
23:26
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23:28
andrew lee and is produced by gretchen
23:30
miestra and justin d wright who also
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editorial director at understood scott
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cashier is our creative director seth
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melnick and briana berry are our
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production directors thanks again for
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listening
23:45
[Music]
24:05
you

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This post was previously published on YouTube.

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